Fuel Management

[quote]Originally posted by Ron B

What sort of Cams are you running?
[:)]
Sorry about the response time, but I just saw your post for the first time.

I had a pair of NOS cams and had Crane re-profile them. This was many years ago and I have since then misplaced the data sheet. The instructions to Crane was to create a profile that would add a bit more to the top end performance, while remaining streetable. There is a bit of a "lope" at idle, but the engine pulls strong through 6,000 RPM's and you can still light up the tires through second gear. I'm now somewhat more cautious with the drive train as I have broken too many items in the past.

300SEL 6.3
E55 AMG
CLK63 AMG Gone
Ferrari 400GTC4
ML400CDI BiTurbo
ML350 CDI BT
9146GT

I bought a 'Big end' street electric pump #10150 rated at 95 GPH 2 years ago. It's made in China and cost me $136 including some fittings. The mounting is different so I need to figure that out.


Warren Bain '65 220S, '99 Volvo V70, 2002 Ford Crown Vic Police Interceptor

What sort of Cams are you running?
[:)]

quote:

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12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section

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Replace your rotten Bosch with a Mallory Comp 140 series and you will never have a fuel pump problem again. Started my heat soaked engine in 101F ambient last year in NYC in 2 seconds. Later I was stuck in NYC traffic for an hour with the AC on. OEM aux fan kept coolant temps below 200F at all times. No problem. And never a problem here in Florida. MFI pump by Robert Fairchild of Jerry Fairchild Industries. His grandfather (Jerry) did all my Bosch work in LA during the 50's and 60's. Robert set up the pump to compensate for the 104.5mm Mahle's and a little more aggressive cam timing.

Mine is a 1971 with the later pump. It works quite well if you whack it with a hammer a couple of times when starting the car.

Jack English
300SEL 6.3 #4768

I had made up some repair kits for the large style pump that included the brushes, bearings, orings, tab washer, circlip and woodruff key. Sold many of these to the memebrs on the Pagoda site.

George Desiderio

I recently replaced my fuel pump because of worn out carbon brushes, not leaking. I asked Tom Hanson for a rebuild kit for the old one but that is NLA. Is there a source for repacement brushes?

Jack English
300SEL 6.3 #4768

During the restoration I installed a Mallory Comp140 pump. Drove the 6.3 in NYC last June with 100+ deg temps. No issues whatsoever. It has proven to be absolutely reliable. The pump is, however, a bit louder than the Bosch. It's also a common retrofit to 8 wheelers as it is also considered to be very reliable. Just my .02.

Talking about the "short pump", is it similar like the 6-cylinder cars have?

I have opened the bottom cover of my 230 SL pump and the impeller is fixed at the shaft with a wedge that is no longer original in my car. It is self-made of brass and is not with a tight fit.

Can I buy the wedge from somewhere or I could fabricate a new one if I had the correct dimension?

Kari Pykäläinen

1971 6.3 #5581
1987 560 SEC
1993 E420
1995 Tahoe 350cid
1982 Stingray SV175 boat

EDIT the part I was referring is of course a woodruff key. I found on the pagoda website:

When you remove the Impeller there will be a very small woodruff key (made of hardened steel 2 x 1.5 x 1.5mm) in that square cut out. Keep that woodruff key very safe. There is a small flat area ground on the shaft that locates the Woodruff Key and when assembled it stops the impeller from spinning on the shaft.

The dimension seems to be odd; I can not figure out how such a part fits on the slot at the shaft.

quote:

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Originally posted by karra

Today I got the individual part n:os from my dealer for the repair kit. At the moment the parts list is in my Chevy and I am 500 km away from home at a Historic race event. I will post the numbers next week if we can sort out what belongs to where.

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OK I found the list. The kit is NLA but the o-rings are available, and this means the brushes are not any more available.

The o-rings are:
99 A 010 997 50 45
99 A 010 995 51 45
99 A 010 997 49 45

I have got the last missing o-ring now in my glove compartment, made of Viton. If the old one starts to leak then I will change it.

Kari Pykäläinen

1971 6.3 #5581
1968 280 SE Coupé
1993 E420
1995 Tahoe 350cid

Karra,

Don't be to shy about stretching a smaller one slightly to fit. I've never worked with the Vitron ones since I think it may be a little overkill, but the Nitrile ones will stretch to fit and provide a good tight, fuel resistant seal.

George Des

Hi Kari,

Sorry about that. NLA = No Longer Available.
Art

Hello George!

Today I got the individual part n:os from my dealer for the repair kit. At the moment the parts list is in my Chevy and I am 500 km away from home at a Historic race event. I will post the numbers next week if we can sort out what belongs to where. But, they were not sure about the availability. Could someone please explain what NLA means, I guess not available or something like that [:)]

Today I ordered a thinner Viton o-ring just in case if the old one starts to leak. The size is 69.5 x 1.78 mm and will probably fit between the motor unit and pump housing (the one a was struggling with most).

Kari Pykäläinen

1971 6.3 #5581
1968 280 SE Coupé
1993 E420
1995 Tahoe 350cid

Karra,

The small pump like the larger pump can be successfully rebuilt so that the fuel flow and pressure are restored. As others have pointed out though, the repair kits for the larger pump are NLA and the kit for the smaller pump, if available, contains only a minimum number of parts, i.e. two or three o-rings and the brushes. I've found that with some of the MB provided small pump repair kits, the brushes included do not contain a relief cut in the shunt area as the original does to facilitate installing them. Also as pointed out, the small pump is a wet pump and fuel is indeed intended to flow through the top portion of the pump. One area that habitually leaks, as you've found out, with these pumps is the terminal area. This is caused by the deterioration of the o-rings behind the terminals and unfortunately these rings are not supplied with the repair kits. The reason you are having difficulty sealing this area is because the o-rings are of a square cross section and are not normally available unless you special order through an o-ring supplier. I have had good luck with rounded cross section o-rings though by re-inforcing them with some fuel resistant sealer such as SEAL-ALL--not ideal, but it will work. I would stronly advise against using a gasket on the bottom plate. I have been able to find o-rings in Nitrile that with a little stretching, will fully seal this area. The Nitrile is fuel compatible and has sufficient "memory" to hold the stretch while you replace the bottom plate and re-install the screws. I'll look around and find out what size I have been using and let you know. For further info on how to rebuild both pumps, see the Tech Manual section of the SL113 website.

Hope this helps,

George Des

Ok, now my pump does not leak anymore [:)] .

The connection between the "pressure chamber" and the "terminal bridge" is still a mystery. I measured again the space for the o-ring from inside part of the housing and it seems there is no gap at all. So that is why my 2.4 mm thick o-ring damaged immediately. I installed the old o-ring from the bottom plate so that it is located right at between the flanges - still there is no space reserved for an o-ring but the used one was soft and it provided the needed seal.

I will try to find out what kind of o-rings the repair kit contains, if possible.

Here is what I used:
8 x 2.5 for the terminal plugs
18 x 2.5 for the shaft at the "pressure chamber"
55 x 2.0 for the motor top cap
70.5 x 2.4 for the bottom plate
71.5 x 1.8 for the motor housing (terminal bridge) that connects to the "pressure chamber"

Perhaps the 8 x 2.0 provide the needed seal for the terminals but the 8 x 2.5 mm work well.





Kari Pykäläinen

1971 6.3 #5581
1968 280 SE Coupé
1993 E420
1995 Tahoe 350cid

Thanks for comments.

My dealer searched from EPC with my VIN number that a repair kit has been available. It seems to contain the parts shown in the picture from Detali.ru-site. That tells me that there is no o-ring at the connection which I am struggling with.

Beacuse I am almost ready with the pump I will try to seal the leaking connection, one more time.

I also think I'd rather buy the original pump and not the "aftermarket" one (or 6.9 version).

But, I have got the short one of course (wet) and it should be the same in the picture I posted from DB Depot.

Within few hours I have more news [:D] .

Kari Pykäläinen

1971 6.3 #5581
1968 280 SE Coupé
1993 E420
1995 Tahoe 350cid

The kit 000 586 01 47, shown in the parts manual is for the short pump. While the diagram shows the long pump (they did not change the diagram when they changed the pump), the kit is coded as only applicable after chassis #2195 which was when the cars were routinely fitted with the short pump. If there ever was a repair kit for the long pump (??000 586 00 47), it has not been available for a long time. When I bought the repair kit 000 586 01 47 over 10 years ago, it contained two brushes and 2 or 3 O rings, but the last I heard, it was NLA. The brushes were definitely different from those in the long pump. The O rings shown in the parts diagram labeled 164 and 167 used to be numbered 53 and 54 and were 000 997 91 45 and 004 997 04 45 and were for the top cap and bottom plate of the long pump, not the short pump. They were coded accordingly as applicable up to chassis #2194. If these part numbers have been changed, they may now be for the short pump, but if they are the same, then these O rings probably will not fit the short pump. I have no experience in trying to repair these short pumps, but in the long pump, the O rings with the exception of the troublesome one on the shaft by the bellows seal are readilly available commercially. With the short pump available new, I would rather buy a new one than spend hours trying to reseal an old one. My obsession with trying to repair the long pumps is no more than an originality thing. Don't know whether this is helpful, but I hope so.
Art

The only repair kit I can get has just the motor brushes, no seals. However, I don't think the parts are interchangeable since the long body pump is a "dry" pump and the short body is a "wet" pump. The kit for the long pump wouldn't have any o-rings except for the bottom cover.

Chris Johnson
If you aren't constantly impressed with your car, then it needs fixing.
100.012-12-000790
100.012-12-000867
www.300SE.org

Chris,

could both pumps not have the same Diameter, so the repairkit is for both pumps the same ???

And the pump in the picture is a long-body pump, not the short.

Chris Johnson
If you aren't constantly impressed with your car, then it needs fixing.
100.012-12-000790
100.012-12-000867
www.300SE.org