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M-100 Group forum members selling area

Welcome to the M-100 Store
Chris Dvorak
6/15/2007 10:26 AM
Welcome to the M-100 store discussion board. As the store grows and evolves we will commence business and transactions. This discussion area is where the store will gain direction and guidance from its members. It is our intention to provide a conduit where members of the club can direct parts acquisition, part manufacture, tool rental and technical information to the members. The store message board is where we can determine the best projects to undertake. With the vast knowledge and expertise of all the club members, the club can best guide its efforts and resources toward the most productive projects. Frances and myself are committed to make this store a success. We will not be able to do this alone. The store needs your input and contribution to make it work. The main purpose of the store is to gather the knowledge and expertise of our members and leverage with duplication to improve our vehicles and make them easier to own.

Lets get started.


Chris
1971 Mercedes 600
1992 Mercedes 400E
1993 Mercedes 400E
1985 Porsche 911
1997 Toyota Landcruiser
2004 Porsche 911 GT3
Admin Admin
6/15/2007 6:11 PM
Chris:

I'm glad the momentum is building for the store! Here are a few suggestions for things that the 'store' should stock/sell:

  • M-100 grill badges

  • M-100 shirts and hats

  • M-100 'badged' carpet mats / car covers

  • Hard-to-find hand tools

  • Out of production/reproduction parts, like suspension blocks

  • Manuals / sales pamphlets (copyrights allowing)

  • Back issues of the Lode Star



As I think of things, I'll pass them along. I know other members have suggestions, and I'm sure they'll be posted.

As a note of 'caution' though, the Store cannot sell items directly related to the safety of the vehicle, such as brake pads, steering gear boxes, tires, etc. for liability reasons.

Gerrett

Jack English
6/17/2007 12:15 AM
Garrett: Can you explain the last cautionary bit. If parts such as brake pads are sourced to reputable manufacturers, where the only specification is the size and all other specifications are met as to the manufacturer's remaining lines, where is the club liability? Remanufactured parts are an entirely different subject.

Jack English
300SEL 6.3 #4768
FEMA
6/17/2007 10:34 PM
Jack - agreed, we do need some further clarification on the point you make. I meant to ask Stu at the meet for some feedback on this.

Looking forward to making this happen!

Francis E. Abate
Jack English
6/18/2007 1:35 AM
Francis: We note, from mention on another thread, that Gary Ensor
had copies of M B Service Bulletins at Minneapolis which were to be made available to others to copy. The Club Store might make such servic bulletins available to members thus avoiding the necessity to ask Gary to make such copies at his expense. A loose leaf volume of these would be a good store item. I understand the D-C allows the club to copy and distribute its copyrighted material to members of this club.


Jack English
300SEL 6.3 #4768
Stu Hammel
6/18/2007 3:24 AM
Gerrett's statement concerning potential club liability for any items we might sell that could have any link to the safety of our automobiles is correct. The theory stems from case precedent in a number of jurisdictions in which the contracting entity (in this case, us) assumes a degree of liability for any defective product it sells. At our meeting in Irvine in 2006, this concept was discussed and concensus was reached that we would not offer such products once the store was up and running. The example of the 600 brake pads is a case in point. If we ask Company A to provide brake pads meeting our specs and then we sell them, we are at risk since we provided the specs.

On the issue of the service bulletins, we are permitted to offer copywritten material to our members to club members through our affiliation with Daimler. This would be an excellent club store offering.

Stu
abl567
6/18/2007 4:11 AM
When we are up and running...
May I suggest holding a small amount of stock of selected items and data in Oz for the Oz, NZ and South East Asian members.
My business is in the position to distribute the products, accept payments, account to the group of the transactions and remit via paypal as required and I am putting my hand up to look after downunder at no cost to the group should the members deem it desirable and the shipping/exchange rate/import duty issues can be resolved.
Now the self serving part.
The first three items Gerrett suggested the shop should stock are items my business supplies. Is it bad form for me to ask if I may submit a proposal to supply product?


6.3 #2723, my first classic Benz
Ron B
6/20/2007 4:02 AM
We need to sell water pumps.In the last 3 weeks there have been a few posts about rebuilding pumps etc.I propose we collect all our core pumps and get then rebuilt so they can be supplied as required to members.
I could be convinced to do the work at a nominal rate per pump.Non club persons would have to supply a core up front and their cost would be higher.If we had a stock of 'say 'a dozen pumps the turn around could be very fast.


...There are old cars,and then there are Classics..(Mercedes Benz Ad. 1999)
Art Love
6/20/2007 5:13 AM
We need to sort out the pump shaft seal issue before we can do that. I've asked Tom Hanson about it and will let you know.
Art
FEMA
6/21/2007 10:15 AM
Stu - I don't mean to beat a dead horse, re: the issue of liability. However, this part is not clear to me; if we have parts from manufacturer's like MB or aftermarket manufacturers already selling such that are not made to "our specs" and we simply distribute/resell them, are we still liable in the way you described? For example, I have a set of vented discs for a 6.3 that are either factory or known aftermarket seller (sorry I don't know at the moment and can't check) which I was able to get for a song in order to generate money for the store -in any case, what's the answer?

Ron - I like the water pump idea!

Francis E. Abate
Stu Hammel
6/21/2007 4:59 PM
Francis,

If we are simply distributing a product that is available to the general market and not EXCLUSIVELY distributed by the Club, we are OK. As soon as we are the exclusive marketer or provided ANY design specs, we could have problems depending on state jurisdiction.

Even in cases where we are simply distributing, we are liable for product returns and refunds. For example, if we market widgets that are made by ABC Co to their own specs, and a buyer has an issue, we are the first in the chain and would need to provide refunds and then go back after the supplier for recompense.

We will certainly spend more time on the development of club store guidelines at the next Board Teleconference which will be scheduled in July.

Best regards,
Stu
bwostosh
6/22/2007 1:06 AM
Can a private party post parts for sale?

Brian O.
Stu Hammel
6/22/2007 4:04 AM
Member ads for cars and parts can be posted in the Classified section of this Forum.

Stu
bwostosh
6/26/2007 12:04 PM
It appears that the classified section is in a deceasing mode.
Where should I advertise the complete W109 sunroof/roof?
(notice this subtle ad)

Brian O.
Stu Hammel
6/26/2007 5:13 PM
Brian,

The classified section works well when ads are posted to it. The section is viewed frequently, so I would recommend giving it a try.

Stu
Gerrett
6/26/2007 6:17 PM
Here are the stats for the Classified Page:

In the past 24 hours: 0015
In the past 7 days: 0157
In the past 30 days: 00609

Is it Ebay? No, but then again it is totally free.


Gerrett Conover,
M-100 Membership Sec'y
-----------------------
1971 600 SWB
1979 450SEL 6.9
1995 Impala SS
1996 S500
[img=left]http://www.600swb.com/Images/flatprofile.jpg[/img=left]
bwostosh
6/29/2007 1:16 PM
I have a lot of stuff to place on classifieds, however the site will not allow me access to the accounts previously set up.

Brian O.
fullhappyfish
7/25/2007 12:35 AM
Can we post resource lists? I'd love to share my sources and secure them into the community....

John Hubertz
1977 450SEL (Max Headroom)
Stu Hammel
7/25/2007 2:09 AM
John,

I think that is a great idea.

Stu
Chris Dvorak
7/25/2007 2:24 PM
Well, Ok if you insist. How can help make that happen?


Chris
1971 Mercedes 600
1992 Mercedes 400E
1993 Mercedes 400E
1985 Porsche 911
1997 Toyota Landcruiser
2004 Porsche 911 GT3
willardtredway
8/29/2007 5:28 PM
I also have a fairly long list of resource websites that I would be happy to share. One issue would be repitition and overlap. Would it be reasonable to rate sources as Amazon and ebay do?
Stu Hammel
8/29/2007 7:05 PM
Lists of sources of parts, service, etc., are good to have. I am afraid that a rating system could be a dangerous thing for the club to provide.

Stu
cth350
8/30/2007 10:03 PM
There is a difference between the club providing the ranking and having the club website maintain the ranking information provided by others (individuals). That's one of the reasons why ebay distances itself from the ratings by saying that they only post them. -CTH
frankhoover
11/5/2007 8:02 PM
I don't want to beat any horse, dead or otherwise but having been a Superior Court judge for the last 25 years and a lawyer for 10 years before that let me offer the following re: selling parts. If something happened causing some damage to anything or anyone, and, that damage was caused in whole or in part by the item we sold, we could be legimately sued. Whether we ultimately could be liable for damages would depend on the individual facts of the case. Our correct response would be to 'answer' and join in the actual maker of the part, the distributor, and anyone else with potential liability. See my point. Its not the actual legal determination of responsibility, its the goshdarned costs of hiring lawyers to defend us etc. These things can cost tens of thousands of dollars in a heartbeat.
That said. If we can do good work and make enough profit to pay for it, liability insurance might not be too expensive if all we sell are OEM parts or parts to manufacturers specs. Thanks.
bwostosh
11/6/2007 10:11 PM
This is a good subject,
What IF(s)

I sell someone a clock, install it, then they crash and
kill someone while looking at it. Am I negligent?

I look under the hood, see a leaking oil hose,
verbally admonish them to replace it,
the hose leaks, pressure drops,
(unnoticed because they are watching their clock (runs perfectly)),
and scatters the 6.3 crankshaft,
they return and threaten a lawsuit,
I laugh out loud at their mechanical ineptness, (piss them off)
Can they sue for my 5 homes and get them ?,
because I failed to put all the property into a LLC?

Serious now....
What would be the issue with a used part?
How can the junkyards sell used tires?
What legal protection do junkyards have?
Why does the law have anything to do with this?
I do understand liability of aircraft parts at 40,000 ft 600mph
But car parts?

Brian O.
FEMA
11/11/2007 9:19 PM
Frank/Brian - I appreciate the points you are making. I believe Chris and I were excited about certain selling parts but this legal concern by the board kind of squashed that thought. While we work to get something that resembles a store off the ground I'm sure we'll keep debating this issue.

Francis E. Abate
Jack English
11/12/2007 12:00 AM
The truth is that anybody with the filing fee and an attorney can sue anyone for anything. Winning a case is quite something else. Perhaps we need to investigate liability insurance. What do used parts resellers do for liability insurance? I think there is a concern that exceeds the actual risk. We are a nonprofit organization with very limited assets, after all.

Jack English
300SEL 6.3 #4768
james lawson
8/30/2008 11:40 AM
I think all of us probably have issues with our linkages. I have replaced the rod ends but not balls they attach to and they are NLA. These parts would be a great asset. I have no idea how to go about getting these made in bulk but I would help any way I could and would certainly be a buyer

jim
bwostosh
8/30/2008 4:23 PM
Thinking and doing the store..
I have now over 400 pictures of my parts collecting obsession.
On a CD 406 Meg.
Here is a typical related to the linkage balls.
I kinda think I'm covered on used linkages



I haven't broken down to exact individual parts.

Brian O.
james lawson
8/30/2008 6:28 PM
Brian I was thinking of something new and not the rods. Jim

jim
bwostosh
8/30/2008 8:43 PM
The ball (male end) can be produced on a lathe and swagged into the existing levers. Should not be a problem to build. just the quantity needed could dictated production. 100 pieces?

Brian O.
Chris Johnson
8/31/2008 11:06 AM
Jim, just what is it you are looking for? The balls and sockets, or the arms with the ball welded in place?

Chris Johnson
If you aren't constantly impressed with your car, then it needs fixing.
100.012-12-000790
100.012-12-000867
109.018-12-000010
109.018-12-000019
109.018-12-003834
www.300SE.org
james lawson
8/31/2008 11:43 AM
Hi Chris the arms with balls welded in place.

jim
Chris Johnson
8/31/2008 12:07 PM
I've been looking into that as well.

The balls and sockets are readily available, but the arms with the balls welded in place is a problem. Rather than have the assemblies created from all new parts, I am looking at having precision jigs made to hold the arms (with the old ball already drilled out and removed) and ball stud in the correct position relative to each other for welding and then having them replated.

Fortunately the 6.3 does not use any arms that rotate on a shaft (as opposed to with the shaft) with bushings in the arm hole. The 300SEs use a few of these and the bushings are always severely worn (nobody ever greases them because they are so hard to get to). I am also looking into getting some jigs for these to be able to drill out the bushing and replacing it and also replace the ball.

If there is enough interest in these, I'll move this up on the priority list.

Chris Johnson
If you aren't constantly impressed with your car, then it needs fixing.
100.012-12-000790
100.012-12-000867
109.018-12-000010
109.018-12-000019
109.018-12-003834
www.300SE.org
bwostosh
9/1/2008 11:06 AM
Re-bushing the arms is a basic machine shop function.
Easy but time consuming. one at a time.
we can find a hobbyist machinist who could do this on the cnczone.com website.

Brian O.
james lawson
10/23/2008 10:47 AM
Another idea for the store: the plastic pouch for the manuals. The seams have separated in mine so everything is in zip lock bag. Since this was used across many models there might be a broader market.
Chris I do have interest in redoing the linkage parts.
jim
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